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2008 Predictions Results

Come chat about the console games that you are playing!

2008 Predictions Results

Postby robbway » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:53 pm

I did my best (read: minimal) research to cross-check our predictions for 2008. Many were funny or sarcastic, and some were serious. The same holds for my scoring, as I sometimes awarded points for fun. Generally, 2 points for correct predictions, 1 point for partially correct predictions, and 0 if wrong. I took the ratio of points/(2*total guesses) to derive the scores.

When you tally up the scores, VxJasonxV is the winner with 55.9% correct! Congratulations! Of course, being correct sometimes hurts, as I predicted the Doritos game would come out this year. *OUCH* :(

Another thing, I discovered that VxJasonxV is the winner because I fixed a scoring error, so point out any errors that affect the outcome of the questions or scores.

Act_deft ( 6/16, 37.5% )

- FFXIII will be delayed until early 2009
Partial Credit: Final Fantasy XIII is slated to be late 2009 (source: Amazon). You may want to predict early 2010 this year. ( 1/2 )

- Silent Hill 5 will also be delayed.
Full Credit (I guess): it seems like every game “slips,” and I’m convinced that it is sometimes a marketing gimmick. Poor EU, almost everything comes late for them. For 2009 it will have to be a “slips from XXX to XXX,” as in more specific dates. The FFXIII was a fairly decent guess. Let’s say by quarter. ( 2/2 )

- One of the big cellphone companies (Sony-Ericsson, Motorola, etc.) will reveal a new portable gaming system, along with some mobile capabilities, yet it will not be a phone like the N-Gage is (or was).
Wrong: I couldn’t find any other portable system. The iPhone 3G upped the ante and the 2nd Gen iPod Touch sports more RAM, but that’s about it. I think phone companies like the fact that you can buy mediocre and crappier games without them releasing an entire system. ( 0/2 )

- Nintendo will reveal a new handheld to follow up the DS. (DS^2)
You win! DSi is the new black. I guess Nintendo thinks everything is better with “i.” ( 2/2 )

- Wii Fit will be a total flop in the beginning, until a new "under-the-water" title makes an appearance and gets unexpected good reviews.
Sorry, but the Wii Fit still sells out! I’ve played the game, and the Yoga is very demanding. It’s a good source of exercise for the inactive middle-aged, overweight crowd that I belong to. Whether you like it or not is a matter of taste. ( 0/2 )

- Konami jumps the gun, again, and releases Beatmania IIDX, a follow up of Beatmania (US) but with the Gold interface (after the JP release of GOLD CS).
I think you should get partial credit because you described Beat ‘n’ Groovy by Konami. It had a premature and incomplete launch. It’s not the same game, but the spirit of your snide prediction did happen. ( 1/2 )

- Kirby will get a Wii game, it most possibly be a follow up (or a Remake) to Canvas Course.
No, but I think Canvas Curse is better as a stylus game. The pointer is difficult to get right. (0/2)

And last but not least the Eye of Judgement will sell 1mil worldwide and LOKI will have to pay his bet.
It didn’t happen, but if we all hate Tingle so much, why be so cruel to Loki? BTW, what did he get for winning his bet? (0/2)

--------------------------------

VxJasonxV (19/34, 55.9%--includes prediction after Skie’s)

- The PS3 will have 3 landmark titles (critically acclaimed, 'must have, must play', everyone talks about it, blah blah blah), two of them will be exclusive to the console.
You are correct, Resistance 2, Little Big Planet, and Metal Gear Solid 4 are the ones that immediately come to mind. MGS 4 is probably the only true landmark title that actually sold systems. (4/4)

- The PS3 will not come within 10% of the 360 or the Wii (terms of market share).
Correct. So much for “The Year of the PS3.” (2/2)
Source: Wikia Gaming Video Game Sales report of cumulative NPD console sales (thru Sep 2008) (http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_Seventh_generation).
7th Gen Console Lifetime sales (as of Sep 08)
Wii 15.4 million (45%)
Xbox 360 12.4 million (37%)
PlayStation 3 6.1 million (18%)

- The 360 will get a web browser. (ehhhh. My gut is telling me not to say this, but I said it... so blah)
You should’ve listened to your gut. I don’t think Microsoft has much to gain by including a browser, as it would be in conflict with Internet Explorer. Besides, they want their customers to use them both, by buying downloads on Xbox.com and then turning on the system to get them. Instead, we got avatars. They’re cute, but that’s about it. (0/2, but your gut gets (2/2)

- The DS will come out with EVEN MORE COLORS (zoinks).
I’m not totally sure of this, but I think you’re right. (2/2)

- A Wii update will bring more than 4 pages of "Channels" (or the Wii secretly already does this and I don't yet know that).
The Wii keeps secrets very well, but the updates were mostly to defy homebrew channels. (0/2)

- The Wii VC will take on 2 new consoles.
(Bonus Points: 3 new consoles, one will be Master System, the other will be a portable, more than likely Game Boy, with the Game Gear being the possible third).

Partial credit for the Master System. (1/2)

- Smash Bros. Brawl will kick ass and be an absolutely stellar followup in the franchise.
Sure, it has TONS of music arrangements and characters. (2/2)

-- Smash Bros. Brawl WILL NOT release until May 2K8 (or summer... after the kids finals are done )
March 9, 2008. That’s bad news for you that was good news all around. (0/2)

- Nintendo will offer yet ANOTHER free addon to the Wii/Wiimotes (first: new straps, second: new jackets, third: ?!?!)
No, but that didn’t stop another lawsuit. I’d say Nintendo gives adequate warning NOT to toss the remote to the point of irritating. I never got the new straps nor the ribbed-for-her-pleasure jackets, because I like living on the edge. (0/2)

- The PS3 drops in price first by $50, $100 by year’s end.
Sony adamantly refused to drop prices. They played the multi-SKU game to death, though. A couple of OLR episodes ago, didn’t we hear that Sony is still losing about $50 per PS3 sold? (0/2)

- eAmuse will STILL not exist in the US
Officially, you are correct. I don’t even have an arcade to go to anymore. Dave & Buster’s is 50 miles away. (2/2)

- Supernova 3 will come out, and continue to be met by a collective "meh". It will not have a new interface.
The closest we got to this one was an April Fools forum post on DDRFreak. I think you should get partial credit for the collective “meh” over Konami’s “Music in Every Direction.” Apparently, every direction is mostly down. (1/2)

- Rock Band 2 will at the very least be announced, (go wireless Harmonica controller!).
It’s out and proud. (2/2)

-- That (Harmonica) was a joke. Ha Ha. FAT CHANCE.
Except for those who are dead.

- Neither BluRay nor HD DVD will fade very much (in terms of constant releases, market/publisher support).
Half credit, HD DVD bit it, big time, but BluRay is still struggling. The only reason DVD did well was because the players and movies became cheaper. Sony? Lessons from the past? Anyone? (1/2)

- Adapters for classic game controllers will come out for the Wii. They will not be first party (i.e. nintendo endorsed) accessories.
Not this year, at least. Sorry, that would’ve been sweet. (0/2)

--------------------------------

JonFields (2/6, 33.3%)

Nintendo doesn't fix the supply problem for xmas next year.
Full credit, they thought they fixed the supply problem, but the demand proved it was inadequate. (2/2)

Xbox live will crash again at christmas.
Not so far. Microsoft is one of those rare companies that learns from mistakes. (0/2)

And Playstation 3 will get a $299 version with no hard disk but will accept USB devices.
I love this idea, but it didn’t happen. Sony should listen to you. (0/2)
Also many companies celebrate as their game series hit 20 years of age.
I didn’t research this one, but it won’t count. I do know celebration was not a common thing this year as the smaller companies and studios closed.

--------------------------------

Skie (9/18, 50.0%)

* Someone will challenge Nintendo for handheld supremacy but it won't be Sony or Microsoft but someone new.
You deserve partial credit for the Apple iPhone App store. You never said it had to be a new console. (1/2)

* Nintendo will introduce the Wii's in new colors for holiday 08, and will address the console's limited space issues around that time as well, as the ever-growing library of Wii Network games will strain existing limits.
No, no, and yes! If RAM were inflatable, I’d have a ball with 8 corners right now. And my SD memory returned magically after being wiped. I’ll never figure that one. (2/6)

* PS3 will "reboot" for holiday 08 with a re-done model that will significantly reduce price to be competitive with xb360. Metal Gear Solid 4 will help sales but not enough for PS3 to gain significant market share. The FFXIII demo will release around the time of the reboot and will have people talking so much that it actually moves consoles. (I also think sales will be attributed to some other unknown-as-of-yet "must have" title. I didn't say this on the show but I predict this must have title does some type of Web 2.0 or other internet integration unlike anything we've seen.)
I think you got the MGS 4 prediction correct. MGS4 does something very unusual with the web, by integrating podcasts on a virtual iPod. Pixeljunk Eden uploads to You Tube (why?). Little Big Planet should allow You Tube uploads, but not yet. I think Pixeljunk Monsters also does/will? So full credit for that last prediction. (4/8)

* Microsoft will bring something like Youtube to it's console, thanks to the capabilities they've shown to deliver "buffering" video at a decent rate in the last dashboard update (Inside Xbox).
Yes, if you combine Community Games and NetFlix, you are correct. (2/2)

--------------------------------
VxJasonxV:And the library of that content will SUCK.
Full credit, as GamerEdie from Gamehounds pointed out the haphazard download titles collection sucks when you’re trying to follow a series of movies, TV shows, and MOST of the Community Games suck. (2/2)
--------------------------------

Robbway (that’s me!) (11/40, 27.5%)

1) I'll predict that Samba De Amigo will be configurable between the Nunchuk/Remote combination and Two-Remote.
Yes! Although obvious, Gaming Steve (where art thou?) didn’t think so. I believe he meant it the two-remote configuration required one controller more than many households have. I played this game for the first time a couple days ago and it gave me instant tendonitis! (2/2)

2) Superscope 6 games for SNES VC.
Hell no. They weren’t that good. (0/2)

3) Lolo 2 on NES VC. Yay!
Yes! That was an easy prediction. (2/2)

4) NDS player on Wii Ware (no extra hardware required)--for a premium, though.
No! and the world is a much better place. (0/2)

5) What's the DS upgrade? I'm thinking Lite-R. The "R" is the screen edges will almost touch and support a FLAT configuration. This would also benefit from two touch screens, but that's one upgrade too many, I think. It should achieve DS Pocket thinness, without compromise on screen size.
Four very wrong predictions. The DSi is barely different. In fact, that pretty much sums up the year in video games: little changes. (0/8)

6) Puerto Rico on XBLA. With Catan, it seems a logical next boardgame.
Nope. (0/2)

7) Milles Bornes on XBLA.
Oh, c’mon! This didn’t happen either. (0/2)

8) Doritos contest winner on XBLA.
This one squeaked in and turned out to be correct, suckily. (2/2)

9) Sci Fi Channel will greenlight a Halo Mini-Series with a treatment similar to Battlestar Galactica.
No. Games made into screenplays suck. I hope it never comes true. (0/2)

10) Eye of Judgement sequel/expansion, Eye of Judgement: Omens of Fate (or equally bad and redundant title), will come with or without the Eye. This will forever seal the maximum number of copies of the original EOJ below 1 million. Listeners and fans of OLR will try to invent some gratuitous contest in which Loki dressing like Tingle is involved.
Yes, EOJ: Biolith Rebellion 2 came out, which is really unimaginative since the first EOJ was the Biolith Rebellion as well. It made it seem like the first EOJ was half a game. It came without the Eye as a download. It did kill the series, though. Try as they might, the OLRmy failed to create another silly bet involving Loki dressing like Tingle. (3/8)

11) Rock Band w/instruments for PS3 will sell on Amazon's Deal-of-the-Day for $90 or under just to get their stock-space back. After Halo 3 Legendary went for $60, and PS3 is the least-selling, it is inevitable.
I think it went on sale, but not that low. I believe the lowest was $100, but I’m not sure, therefore no credit. (0/2)

12) Desperate for more titles, Nintendo will re-tool their most popular GameCube titles for Wii-release at $20. I think the Metroids, Paper Mario, and Zelda Windwaker are good candidates. Expect new content to be Wii controls and mini-games. We can't get enough of that mini-game goodness!
This only partially came true, and at least they admit it now. I have had plenty of mini-game goodness. (2/6)

--------------------------------

Ssj100matt (9/34, 26.5%)

Microsoft will drop the price of the subscription fee for Gold Accounts... And XBL will still break down occasionally .
No, Gold still costs a small fee, relatively. XBL will always break down occasionally. (0/2)

- Nintendo will reveal a new DS redesign along with new colors including Link Green, Samus Orange and Mario Blue & Red...
Yes, the DSi counts! Your new colors are better names than they came up with, even if it is wrong. (1/2)

- MGS4: 1) Will be a late summer title 2) And won't be on 360 3) Will greatly influence sales of the PS3
1) Late spring (June 12), 2) isn’t on the 360, 3) It did influence the sales of the PS3, except Sony still needs more sales. (4/6)

- Wii Fit and the Wii balance board will not take off (at least not right away)...
Yes, they did. I got a preview report of the sales from the UK by a friend’s observations, and the same thing happened in North America. I despise all of the unnecessary accessories for the balance board, though. (0/2)

- Nintendo will not put out a portable HD for the Wii because of fears of homebrewing and cracking... But people will still get around it...
It didn’t happen, but people are successfully getting their homebrewing done. (2/2)

- An actual Wii music channel will come out... Multiple visualizers will be available including a Nintendogs visualization with dancing puppies...
Again, another great idea from OLR that didn’t happen. Maybe the console manufacturers should read this thread! (0/2)

- Sony will stop putting out PS3's with larger HD space... Will stick with the 80gig, 40gig and possibly bring back the 60gig.. The prices for each SKU will also be:
80G=$450, 60G=$350, 40G (bundle with Ratchet and Clank)=$300

They stuck with the 80G, for $400, and the Uncharted 160g pack for $500. That’s an improvement, at least, but the sales indicate that they need $200 and $300 models instead. (0/2)

- The price of Blu Ray players will drop to match the price of HD-DVD players...
The death of HD DVD made this prediction impossible to be true. (0/2)

- Electric Six and Bloc Party songs will come to Rock Band... Listeners will beg Loki to sing Gay Bar but it won't happen...
I checked the Rock Band Ultimate Track List on IGN. No Electric Six and no Bloc Party. The listeners are very cruel to Loki this year! (0/4)

- The PSP will make a stronger impact on the handheld market
Despite some of the stellar games, the PSP has good sales, just not “stronger impact.” The local Sony rep gave me a PSP silicone flying disc. Does that add impact? (0/2)

- OLR the fighting game (MUGEN) will come out
Does SSF2THDR count? (0/2)

- Mr Spanky will return, where he will surprise and scare off new listeners
I don’t think this happened, and it would probably scare up new listeners. Correct me if I’m wrong. (0/2)

- At least 1 new show will come to OLR
Mr. Obvious scores a point. Good job! (2/2)

- OLR will have a big Smash Bros Brawl tournament... Afterwards AGI listeners will call out the OLR listeners and an even larger (OLR vs AGI) tournament will ensue...
I don’t think this happened either, but OLR vs AGI doesn’t make sense now that they are part of AGI. (0/2)

--------------------------------

WarriorBob (9/28, 32.1%)

Responding to the success of Rock Band and Guitar Hero, Sony attempts to market the PS3 as the high-end music game machine by hiring Harmonix to finally make some sequels to Frequency and Amplitude (since Sony owns those licenses).
These didn’t happen, but I’d love to see more Frequency and Amplitude. (0/2)

- The Wii makes lightgun games popular again. I rejoice, everyone else looks at me like I'm a crazy hobo.
I believe this counts as correct. It may not have revived the lightgun, but tons of lightgun games have been published. Ghost Squad, Target Terror, and House of the Dead 2&3 are examples. The only lightgun game they didn’t do was Cooking Mama: Mama Takes Inventory. (2/2)

- Nintendo redesigns the DS, insisting that this time the DS stands for "Does Shit" and pushes the "shit you can do with your DS" angle with more skill training game and other tools like browsers, map software, and crude porn games.
I think you’re on to them, DShit is two letters different than DSi. They’ve also pushed the “shit you can do with your DS” with SAT trainers, Stupid (not fun) facts trainers, recipes, and all things “imagine” and “ends-with-Z.” (2/2)

- Gibson starts a line of Guitar Hero themed guitars, thus forever melding videogames and rock music into the ultimate child-mind-poisoning vessel of Satan. An attorney from Florida denounces Gibson, Inc. as a 'murder simulator.'
No, but my child-mind-poisoning vessel of Satan just fell off the table and broke. Hello, Craigslist! I have no idea which ex-attorney from Florida you are talking about. (0/2)

- One million Eye of Judgment copies are sold. However, it turns out that it's just a million xeroxed copies of one card that some kid sold on ebay for $10. OLR debates Loki's bet and it's decided that Loki will indeed buy an Eye of Judgment and Tingle costume, but instead, during the game against Bobby, Loki will drink a beer while setting fire to the tingle costume.
Wouldn’t that mean Bobby and Loki would be drinking beer and Loki would have nothing on? Oh well, since they don’t live in the same city or state, I guess it could happen via PSN. Just keep that camera focused on the board. (0/4)

- "Park my bricks" line from the Duke Nukem Forever teaser becomes the tagline for the new game, which is released in 2008. Duke Nukem Forever: Park My Bricks turns out to be a Tetris clone.
Neither of these happened. Are you just making fun of Duke Nukem Forever? For shame! (0/4)

- Nintendo DS redesigned again, newest model has no screens and simply shoots money out of it. Only one copy is ever produced and sits at Nintendo Headquarters.
DS is redesigned, but it has screens and PRINTS money for Nintendo. (1/2)

- Nintendo markets Wii telezapper that lets you use your Wiimote as a phone that telemarketers can't call you on because they don't have your friend code.
If the telezapper sends a shock to the telemarketer, I’ll publish that myself! (0/2)

- Wii fit balance board delayed until 2009 for North America, "guru meditation error" cited.
The board came out, but the guru is still lurking about. (0/2)

- Microsoft fires Santa's elves from Xbox Live support after they all suddenly left the offices in December leaving the service in disarray. XBL is fully functional throughout December '08.
Yes, but since elves aren’t officially real, they didn’t get unemployment benefits. XBL is fully functional throughout December. (4/4)

- New Wii channel: "Caption your Cat" announced.
“I Can Haz Capshun” sounds fun, but the network traffic sending cat pictures would make the Wii self-destruct from memory overflow. Exploding Wii is very Explosive. (0/2)

--------------------------------

Gs68 (6/24, 25.0%)

Nintendo does a Wiicats marketing campaign.
I want what you and WarriorBob are smoking—just to take the edge off. (0/2)

- Drum simulation game based on the drum part of Rock Band gets released. Everyone who isn't a Bemani fan forgets that Drummania came first and calls it a ripoff with "Japanese techno" and too many drum pads.
The game didn’t come out, but Americans do believe Rock Revolution is a knockoff rather than the original. (2/4)

- GH4 has Hyper Speed as an option (and not a cheat), and all the anti-HS'ers finally shut the hell up.
I don’t think so, but I don’t have the game. Open to correction? (0/2)

- Drunken orgy on OLR with special guest DMN. All goes well until DMN accidentally breaks his NDA.
Ah, the famous “lost episode.” Tell DMN that they now have surgery to repair your NDA before you get married. (0/4)

- Jackie-poo goes to E3, plays GTA 4, and then beats the crap out of numerous attendees and developers. He then justifies this by saying that it's what video games does to kids.
J-poo didn’t do that because he realized that he was the antithesis of “kid.” (0/2)

- IIDX 16 gets released, but it also marks the return of SLAKE, and this is emphasized causing 1/4 of the new songs to be SLAKE songs.
I think this happened, and if Slake songs were words, they’d be spelled “WlkjdOFgr!” (1/2)

- SSBB online phails.
It doesn’t “phail,” but if you meant “phallus,” it’s unlocked right after you unlock Sheng Long. (0/2)

- SF4's tier list: Top tier: Ryu and Ken, Bottom tier: Everyone else
I can’t argue with that. (2/2)

- EGM's April Fool's joke: Jackie-poo takes over EGM. Mass jihads to his house by pre-teen readers with an IQ lower than absolute zero ensue.
If EGM doesn’t get bought up, this may yet happen, just not in 2008. (0/2)

- The developers of Yaris make a sequel: Hiace.
Yes, but they renamed it “Dash of Destruction.” Dinosaurs + destruction + snack foods? Where the hell did they go wrong? (1/2)
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Re: 2008 Predictions Results

Postby VxJasonxV » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:59 pm

robbway wrote:When you tally up the scores, VxJasonxV is the winner with 55.9% correct! Congratulations! Of course, being correct sometimes hurts, as I predicted the Doritos game would come out this year. *OUCH* :(

Another thing, I discovered that VxJasonxV is the winner because I fixed a scoring error, so point out any errors that affect the outcome of the questions or scores.

ARE YOU F*!@&%ING SERIOUS? omg I rock XD.

However, I have to contest some of my own results. Take 'em or leave them at your own discretion.

robbway wrote:- Smash Bros. Brawl will kick ass and be an absolutely stellar followup in the franchise.
Sure, it has TONS of music arrangements and characters. (2/2)
If this is your own opinion, great. I love the game personally, and yes, the arrangements are stellar.

Some people would contest this, as the game plays a little bit slower.

But hey, people bitch about everything. Personally I'd accept 1/2, but then again it's not like I'm a serious fighting game... knowledgeable... type... person.

robbway wrote:- eAmuse will STILL not exist in the US
Officially, you are correct. I don’t even have an arcade to go to anymore. Dave & Buster’s is 50 miles away. (2/2)

Even I'm fighting with myself over this one.

Technically, eAmuse is RokeTesu'ing (Location Testing) in NJ. But, my point was that, I don't care what you say about new DDRs, eAmuse will not exist in the US. Not in the manner that it exists in Japan, not even close.

Arcades will not adopt eAmuse booths. American arcade games will not adopt/create bonus content unlocked by eAmuse point accruals. Hell, if it ever does exist, it won't exist outside of DDR.

robbway wrote:- Supernova 3 will come out, and continue to be met by a collective "meh". It will not have a new interface.
The closest we got to this one was an April Fools forum post on DDRFreak. I think you should get partial credit for the collective “meh” over Konami’s “Music in Every Direction.” Apparently, every direction is mostly down. (1/2)


1/2 because it came out as DDR X. But other than that, yeah, "meh" indeed.

robbway wrote:- Neither BluRay nor HD DVD will fade very much (in terms of constant releases, market/publisher support).
Half credit, HD DVD bit it, big time, but BluRay is still struggling. The only reason DVD did well was because the players and movies became cheaper. Sony? Lessons from the past? Anyone? (1/2)

Honestly, I'll take a 0/2 here. The point was made that the HD wars will continue, but they didn't. HD-DVD blew out in flames, and BluRay has picked up some more publishers.
Sure, BluRay isn't dominating store shelves nor purchases, but the point remains that BluRay is the next optical disc format.

[edit]
Forgot one.

robbway wrote:And the library of that content will SUCK.
Full credit, as GamerEdie from Gamehounds pointed out the haphazard download titles collection sucks when you’re trying to follow a series of movies, TV shows, and MOST of the Community Games suck. (2/2)

This is by far either a 1/2 or even a 0/2. I'm thinking 1/2, here's why.
Microsoft's own licensed content is absolute ass. That is, it's original releases, not redistributed TV shows and what not.

However, fucking NETFLIX. That library is anything but suck.

Freaking Netflix, came totally out of left field.
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Re: 2008 Predictions Results

Postby robbway » Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:34 am

VxJasonxV wrote:ARE YOU F*!@&%ING SERIOUS? omg I rock XD.

However, I have to contest some of my own results. Take 'em or leave them at your own discretion....


I think the plusses and minuses sort of cancel each other out. However, your points of contention are a very good read. Thanks!
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Postby act_deft » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:20 pm

W007! 3rd place!
Image

No, MGS4 isn't coming to the 360. Never was, never will.
If I'm mistaken, Ranma gets a free copy of it. =P
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Re: 2008 Predictions Results

Postby DarkTetsuya » Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:10 pm

VxJasonxV wrote:Technically, eAmuse is RokeTesu'ing (Location Testing) in NJ. But, my point was that, I don't care what you say about new DDRs, eAmuse will not exist in the US. Not in the manner that it exists in Japan, not even close.

Arcades will not adopt eAmuse booths. American arcade games will not adopt/create bonus content unlocked by eAmuse point accruals. Hell, if it ever does exist, it won't exist outside of DDR.


At least Konami wised up and included the unlock codes in SN2 (granted they don't do jack shit for me, the closest SN2 I know of is in djtyrant's neck of the woods, several hundred miles away... EDIT: oh rvgl has one? Damn I haven't been there in a while, I hope its up to date!)
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